Moral Outrage
Okay. Time for some replies.
Judas, no I don’t care about any other animals. All the animals I don’t know can be rounded up and slaughtered and ground into a thick paste and distributed to the poor. As long as they don’t touch my animals. Seriously, what’s your point? I think it’s a quite natural and human reaction to not want people to eat animals that you know, that you have named, that you love. Does that make me a hypocrite? I’m fine with that then, I never claimed to be perfect. This is not a discussion about veganism or vegetarianism. For the record, I have always believed that it’s not morally wrong to eat meat. I have always felt that it makes more sense to fight for the ethical treatment of animals rather than for us to not eat them at all. But my experiences with the playground has got me seriously thinking about vegetarianism. It’s irrelevant right now though. Whether I was a vegan or not wouldn’t change a thing and I wouldn’t get far with a holier-than-thou feeling. I am human and I am flawed, like everyone else. I am as much an evil human as the evil humans who might end up eating 3B and Springbok. That does not make me cry any less.
Fuse, I understand how you feel about neutering. Just the thought of anyone messing with Plume’s family jewels makes me quite upset. But neutering is a pretty normal thing when it comes to goats and cats, and probably other animals. Mads is neutered and he is still every bit the character, every bit the male and very happy. It hasn’t hurt his personality. So if the choice is between killing and neutering, I know what I’d take.
I don’t actually know much about the technical aspects of it. But I imagine that if a potential buyer was only interested in neutered males then they would be neutered before the purchase.
Making fliers is a good idea. I will try to come up with something. My new printer will come in handy. If I ever get it set up.
The reason that they let the goats breed is indeed that baby goats are so cute and fun. It brings a lot of joy to the people who work there and the kids who go there and visitors in general. I guess in a way it’s a little irresponsible? Kinda like buying a little pet for your kids and then flushing it down the toilet when it grows up and isn’t so cute anymore… but in their defense, they do not breed kids continually all the time and discard them without thought. They have kids at most once a year. I don’t think there were any kids the year before Magnethe. And when they do get kids then they try to keep them, like Magnethe, or to get them to other playgrounds or places where they can be happy. It’s not like a conveyor belt of kids being run into the slaughterhouse. Hopefully Springbok and 3B will find a nice place to go to too.
Luis, you don’t have to apologise. It means a lot to me that people care and leave comments. It took some courage/energy from me to take the talk with Kurt and your comments helped me gather it.
Once again, thank you all for the comments. Send good vibes and let’s hope a home will be found for the two little lovely ones.
Some non-goat related stuff. Welcome home to Florida Girl who was on vacation in Denmark. I hope we presented ourselves well. Maybe some day I can visit Florida. Although I hear the weather there isn’t exactly my favourite kind.
Also a big thank you to Jane. She sent me lovely photographs of her family. They are beautiful. The photos and the family. It is a funny thing to think of. Two people I know through diaryland has had babies recently. I don’t know how much “publicity” they want so I’m not gonna link them unless they say I can, but I will just say that they have had absolutely beautiful babies. And I’m not saying that in a Seinfeld polite way. No, they are gorgeous. And their names too. Julian and Raven. Gorgeous names for gorgeous kids. I hope they will have long and gorgeous lives.
I will finish off with some pictures from the playground. Just to remember that it is still a wonderful place, and I need the positivity from it more than ever.
August 9th, 2006 at 23:23
Yes, I have that conflict too, about eating meat. I like meat and I know where it comes from, but eating an animal you’ve named and loved wouldn’t be something I could do.
I like the picture of Mads staring off into space. The background color of the sky is a similar gray. What is he looking for? The complexity of goats!
Your blog and replies gets pretty interesting when you have a controversial subject. Meat-eaters vs. vegans, neutering vs. non-neutering, pets vs. food animals. I like having something to think about and discuss with you and the others. It’s good to agree/disagree. I think lots can be learned that way. Thanks for sharing with us!
August 10th, 2006 at 0:50
but what makes those few animals more deserving of life than the rest of the animal population that gets slaughtered to feed you? that’s what i don’t understand. you talk as if this is some criminal thing that they’re doing, to kill some farm animals and make them meat, as if that is something that never happens, as if it is so cruel and unusual, when you in fact participate in the system that makes this ‘slaughter’ happen. I don’t understand how anyone can claim to love animals, and think that they have intelligence, and kindness, and personalities, and feelings, but also eat them? and furthermore, by supporting the meat and dairy industry, also support the extremely abusive conditions under which animals of the meat and dairy industry are kept? Vegetarianism is just about the most pointless thing to do, except if you do it for health reasons. It only serves to make the person feel better about himself but actually does nothing to solve the problem of animal abuse in the meat and dairy industry. The vast majority of the animals that are killed for meat are the same ones that are used for dairy. When you are born, you are pumped full of hormones and live in disgusting and cramped quarters, until you’re too old to produce milk, then off to the slaughter house. So if you eat ice cream or yogurt or cake or any other dairy, you’re still supporting the same industry. k? Or maybe I’m just misinterpreting what you said, and you only mean to say that what matters is how this makes YOU feel, and not the actual plight of ANIMALS? as in, there is no inherent worth in animals, and their only contribution is in making you feel better, and therefore those who do not serve this purpose, they deserve to die? and the killing of the animals you know are bad because it would make you feel bad, but the killing of all other animals are okay because you’ve never met them and therefore don’t care? eh.
August 10th, 2006 at 4:27
I won’t get into the meat eaters vs. the non-meat eaters. That’s a personal and private thing. And it’s an argument that will never have answers to please everyone.
Anyway, the purpose now is to hope that nothing happens to the two little goats. That’s more important. And just like Plume said, we should keep good thoughts and lots of prayer that something wonderful will work out in the end. I know it will.
August 10th, 2006 at 6:54
Judas has a point I can’t help agreeing with, and yet I’m a hypocrite because I have a leather couch and I do eat turkey, chicken, salmon and eggs (but make sure I only buy free range organic, which is better for the animals, better for me, and better for farming in general). Still, I feel less than stellar for eating meat because let’s face it, if I had to kill those animals with my bare hands for food I’d return to vegetarianism in a nanosecond. I couldn’t do it unless I was starving in the wildnerness somewhere and had run out of options. And even then, it would crush me. And that makes me less of a person, really, than even the people doing the killing on my behalf so I can stuff my face tomorrow.
I think a lot of us grow up not even knowing that those sanitized packages in the supermarket contain once sentient creatures. I did, anyway, until I read Jon Robbins book Diet for a New America. For fifteen years I was a vegetarian, but not having the protein balance right did me in eventually and I reluctantly began to eat meat again. Still, I know it’s possible to get all the necessary protein from seeds, grains, raw vegetables and nuts…so.
In the western world people will complain about Asians eating dogs and cats because dogs and cats are pets and companions. This is a foreign concept in most parts of Asia. Somehow we don’t think of a cow, a pig, or a chicken as a cuddly, sweet, intelligent creature and that’s because we eat them. If we thought of them differently, if we knew them (as Plume knows goats) we’d stop eating them.
All mammals have nervous systems, brains, and emotional lives…they feel and conspire and think to some degree. I have no doubt mammals are capable of love. Yet we eat some and we don’t eat others.
I do agree with Plume that how we treat the animals we kill for dinner is critical. Animals deserve to live high quality lives, not in cages and florescent lit barns and factory floors, but out in the sun, in the pastures, under the trees. And their slaughter should be humane. Unfortunately, this is not the case in the industrialized world. We have a moral duty to change this regardless of whether we’re vegetarian or not.
It’s impossible to live in this world without doing some harm but the less harm we can inflict the better this world will be and hopefully we can all agree to that.
August 10th, 2006 at 6:58
P.S. I have to take Judas to task for dissing vegetarians. Vegetarianism, like organic farming, is a political act, and in fact, the meat industry is increasingly suffering as the consciousness of humanity rises on this issue. If every person became a vegetarian tomorrow – even if they consumed organic dairy products – the entire meat and conventional dairy industry would collapse.
Oprah Winfrey was almost crucified by the meat lobby for speaking out against factory farming. These are political issues.
Check out madcowboy.com I think you’d like what he has to say (and the meat industry has actually threatened his life for his criticisms).
August 10th, 2006 at 8:14
In some places, they have a saying, “seek the middle path”.
You don’t have to be a level 4 vegan.
But you don’t have to be stoic about the goats’ fate either.
Some paradox in life is okay.